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Date:	11/30/99 6:52:13 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, November 30 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1414<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Low TL Medicines (was: Re: Rule of man coin)<BR>
Re: Low TL Medicines (was: Re: Rule of man coin)<BR>
Re: Low TL Medicines<BR>
Re: Youth and Skill....<BR>
Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: Police ranks<BR>
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
Re: Latin pronounciation (was Re: Rule of man coin)<BR>
Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: Sci fi films<BR>
Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
YNYBPTMTW (was re: LEO's)<BR>
re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:50:41 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Low TL Medicines (was: Re: Rule of man coin)<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> >> Eris,<BR>
> >>     who's father used alum on mouth ulcers...<yuck!!>...and who's<BR>
> >>     grandmother insisted on dosing him with paragaric whenever he<BR>
> >>     came down with a bad cold.  Do you *know* exactly what was in<BR>
> >>     paragaric?  <g><BR>
> <BR>
> >If you're referring to "paregoric", then yes.<BR>
> <BR>
> I am...<BR>
> <BR>
> >~imagining a cold-stricken seven-year-old Eris on opiates mixed with<BR>
> >alcohol~<BR>
> <BR>
> ...and I certainly felt *no* pain.  Grandmom had to look after me<BR>
> while my parents were at work, so in the morning she'd "dose me"<BR>
> with a teaspoon and I was "no trouble" for the whole day.  <g><BR>
<BR>
Bringing this back to Traveller:<BR>
<BR>
At least here on Terra, advances in medicines have often been aimed at<BR>
reducing the side-effects of otherwise-effective drugs.  Thus, paregoric<BR>
(which was often prescribed to relieve diarrhea, as opiates tend to<BR>
cause constipation) was replaced by compounds which also relieved<BR>
diarrhea, without the narcotic side-effects of paregoric.  Similarly,<BR>
there has been a trend in antihistamines toward compounds that are less<BR>
likely to cause drowsiness.  Presumably, as a general rule, as TL<BR>
increases, drug side-effects decrease.<BR>
<BR>
The question then become:<BR>
<BR>
To what extent (if any) does the Imperium regulate the interstellar<BR>
transport of medicinal compounds between worlds, if said compounds are<BR>
legal on the world of origin?  If there is no formal Imperial regulation<BR>
of such compounds, does the Imperium at least attempt to help worlds<BR>
maintain their own regulations on importation of medicinal compounds?<BR>
<BR>
In other words, are PCs who purchase laudanum on a TL-4 world subject to<BR>
Imperial sanctions if they sell said laudanum on a TL-13 world that<BR>
strictly regulates opiates?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 01:05:13 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Low TL Medicines (was: Re: Rule of man coin)<BR>
<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>The question then become:<BR>
><BR>
>To what extent (if any) does the Imperium regulate the interstellar<BR>
>transport of medicinal compounds between worlds, if said compounds are<BR>
>legal on the world of origin?  If there is no formal Imperial regulation<BR>
>of such compounds, does the Imperium at least attempt to help worlds<BR>
>maintain their own regulations on importation of medicinal compounds?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I would suspect that the Imperium might have to involve itself in this sort<BR>
of scenario. Introduction of addictive drugs into a society can have grave<BR>
economic consequences. Even the distant Imperium doesn't want an industrial<BR>
world to be turned into a crack den. Historically, this tactic was used<BR>
deliberately by the British during the Opium Wars. On a smaller scale, the<BR>
introduction of alcohol to the American Indians was devastating.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:52:12 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Low TL Medicines<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 3:50 PM<BR>
Subject: Low TL Medicines (was: Re: Rule of man coin)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> In other words, are PCs who purchase laudanum on a TL-4 world subject to<BR>
> Imperial sanctions if they sell said laudanum on a TL-13 world that<BR>
> strictly regulates opiates?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Because of real world examples, I'd have to go with "yes."  Here in<BR>
Australia for example, there are drugs commonly found in the U.S., U.K., and<BR>
Europe for such things as diverse as impotence to cancer related<BR>
pain-relief, that are not "approved"  by the AMA (the Australian Medical<BR>
Association).  This means that such drugs cannot be imported (or<BR>
manufactured here) for sale here.  I also believe you cannot take<BR>
paracetamol into Turkey and Middle Eastern countries, just as the<BR>
un-approved drugs cannot be brought legally into Australia?<BR>
<BR>
I would say that a whole swag of drugs and alcohols are banned from various<BR>
worlds for as many different reasons?  Some of the un-approved drugs here,<BR>
have been on sale in other countries for decades and are not approved for<BR>
such reasons as "not been proved," "are snake oils," or "dangerous unto<BR>
themselves" (for a long time here, you couldn't get sunscreen with and spf<BR>
of more than 15, as it was said the extra chemicals to obtain such ratings,<BR>
were more harmful to the user than the added protection factor was worth...<BR>
it was several years for spf15+'ess with less harmful chemicals to go on the<BR>
shelves here.)  Similar reasons may apply for bans in other countries (and<BR>
in Traveller, on other worlds), plus with the addition of social and<BR>
religious reasons...?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 22:54:18 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Youth and Skill....<BR>
<BR>
>Will Hostman wrote:<BR>
>> Keep in mind most serious musician types really do<BR>
>> dedicate about 2/3rds or<BR>
>> more of their high-school free time to practice.<BR>
>> Most are good by high<BR>
>> school.<BR>
><BR>
>Which brings up something I've been thinking of... I<BR>
>recently read an article where some people studied<BR>
>what makes a good sportsperson, was it genetic, etc...<BR>
>and they found the most common predictor of<BR>
>national-level performance was plain old practice.<BR>
>That level is reached by about 10,000 hours of<BR>
>training, usually 20 hours a week over 10 years<BR>
>(sounds a lot, but as Will said, many can reach this<BR>
>quite early.) I've a sense the same would be true for<BR>
>musicians and other artists. The article also said<BR>
>that sometimes the person was a master of their sport,<BR>
>but had less training, but it was usually found they'd<BR>
>trained elsewhere in other sports, eg a famous<BR>
>pole-vaulter in Australia began as a gymnast...<BR>
><BR>
this whole issue brings up the game design issue of Stats vs Skills in<BR>
resolving actions. Musicians, as a general rule, require a good bit of<BR>
manual dexterity, a high level of intellectual capability, a lot of<BR>
discipline, plus a number of distinct skills. Reading music is nearly<BR>
essential for serious musicians. (No offense here, but most rock and roll<BR>
is VERY musically simple.) A knowledge of one's instrument is also<BR>
essential. Ability to memorize, also useful (essential for solists and<BR>
vocalists). Ability to hear and relate to other musicians in the ensemble.<BR>
Ability to follow the conductor and read the music.<BR>
<BR>
Skill with an instrument is a rote-learned series of associations of notes<BR>
to fingerings for most instrumentalists. On the stringed instruments, there<BR>
are several sets of fingerings per note, and are state-dependant upon arm<BR>
position (at least if you're going to make it). After a few years it<BR>
becomes reflexive: see the note, and if hand is in 1st position, use finger<BR>
X on string y; if in 4th position, yse finger V on String W.<BR>
<BR>
When performing, most performers have at least partially memorized the<BR>
pieces (especially the page turns), and will alternate rapidly between the<BR>
music and the conductor. Vocalists typically are required to memorize their<BR>
whole program, usually by rote, and sometimes must also memorize dance<BR>
steps as well.<BR>
<BR>
Writing music is little more than creating a melody, and plugging  in<BR>
whichever set of musical formulae you choose to use. Traditional classical<BR>
music is remarkably formulaic. Given the Bass and Soprano lines of a Bach<BR>
chorale, the average colege sophomore in a music program SHOULD be giving<BR>
you the exact same thing as Bach used. Soliere and even Motzart used the<BR>
same formula. Paul McCartney's music uses it, too... but not as tightly.<BR>
<BR>
>So what skill level does this correspond to in Trav?<BR>
>I'm imagining Level 6 for T4...<BR>
using t4 levels:<BR>
To be honest, most "Prodigies" should be about skill 4 (Professional) by<BR>
start of career (age 17/18), and gain probably about 1 level per two years<BR>
in their primary focus, plus pick up additional foci at the rate of 1 per<BR>
term. (The few I've met who followed it on really aren't much better<BR>
rounded than they were in Junior High School... but they are really<BR>
impressive with their specialty).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Sorry to bring up the whole "realism" question, I'm<BR>
>just trying to associate real skill levels with game<BR>
>mechanics ones...<BR>
<BR>
If you want realistic music skill rules, here's a patch for ANY edition<BR>
(except GT):<BR>
<BR>
The music skill level is a representation of the overall level of musical<BR>
expertise of the character. To represent more realistically the wide range<BR>
of capabilities possible with similar levels of training, let us define<BR>
some sub-skills. Sub-skills do not count towards skill limits in CT/MT, but<BR>
the general music training level does.<BR>
The Sub-Skills:<BR>
	Strings - Viol Family<BR>
	Strings - Lute Family<BR>
	Strings - Harp Family<BR>
	Percussion (tuned)<BR>
	Brass<BR>
	Woodwinds<BR>
	Keyboards<BR>
	Singing<BR>
	Music Theory<BR>
	Conducting<BR>
	Interpretation<BR>
Each level of General Music Skill gives you two levels of subskills. You<BR>
may take any combination. When resolving tasks, use the subskill level,<BR>
rather than the general skill level. In general, the first level will be<BR>
put into the  interpretation and chosen instument subskills.<BR>
General Music at level (CT/MT 2, TNE/T4 3) provides level 0 in all<BR>
subskills, simply due to eventual exposure.<BR>
<BR>
A note on the strings subskills: The Viol family includes the Viols, plus<BR>
the modern descendants known as the (double or String) Bass, the<BR>
(Violin-)chello, the Viola, and the Violin. All viols are typically played<BR>
with a bow drawn across the strings. The Lute family includes Guitars,<BR>
Mandolins, and Balilaikas, and are generally played by strumming or<BR>
plucking. Both the Lute and Viol families have a few strings, whose tone is<BR>
changed by pressing the string down against a neck. The Harp family is<BR>
generally comprised of instruments with a wide number of strings, and each<BR>
playable note is a separate string (although most modern concert harps have<BR>
foot pedals which shift a series of strings up in pitch by a small<BR>
ammount). All three strings skill serve as level 1 in the other strings<BR>
subskills if held at level 2+, level-0 if held at level one.<BR>
<BR>
A few notes on the "Non-performing" skills:<BR>
Music Theory is writing music. Generally, each level should include one<BR>
style of music whose formulae are known, as well as a general knowledge of<BR>
how to write, transpose, arrange, and edit written music.<BR>
<BR>
Interpretation is the ability to read music and to get more than just<BR>
mechanical notes from written music. It is generally not used much except<BR>
by soloists and conductors, but a basic knowledge is essential to a good<BR>
performance. If this subskill is not posessed, any solistic work should be<BR>
one level more difficult.<BR>
<BR>
Conducting is the ability to get a group of performers to perform based<BR>
upon the conductor's interpretation of the music. It also includes knowing<BR>
how to arrange  musicians themselves for best effect.<BR>
<BR>
[Jeff, if you want, go right ahead and move to FT]<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:26:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Eris' Computers<BR>
<BR>
On 29 Nov 99, at 11:29, Zane H. Healy wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In any case the larger the ship the greater the requirements for CPU and<BR>
> memory capacity.  Each thing the computer is keeping track of will require<BR>
> at least a little memory, and the more things you keep track of the more<BR>
> CPU horsepower it will take to track everything.<BR>
<BR>
My point was that many of these things don't go up in volume much with <BR>
increasing capacity, as most of the volume is for cooling systems, <BR>
maintenance access and user interfaces - things that won't grow in size <BR>
very quickly with increasing computer power. However the cost will <BR>
increase quite quickly.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:20:48 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> usually presents the players with a situation that must be escaped,<BR>
> as it can't be resolved. Unless there's something godlike about the<BR>
> PC's,<BR>
<BR>
Or they are playing the Star Trek Role Playing game :-)<BR>
<BR>
> they're generally not going to solve in a week what a planetful of<BR>
> intelligent (though biased) people haven't been able to solve in<BR>
> centuries.<BR>
<BR>
That was the *good* thing about a few of the original Trek episodes.<BR>
They actually had a few where the aliens *didn't* fall all over each<BR>
other to immediately accept advice from these "aliens" (the crew) that<BR>
was contrary to centuries of the native culture. "Let That Be Your Last<BR>
Battlefield", for example.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:27:18 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Police ranks<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
><BR>
>>>So where does the rural sheriff and his deputy fit<BR>
> in ?<BR>
><BR>
>>The sheriff is an elected position, typically the <BR>
>>highest in a county(or parish). Small sheriff <BR>
><BR>
> Before we get too far into Yanks-and-Brits in Space,<BR>
> let's remember that law enforcement can occur under a<BR>
> large variety of paradigms.  In rural areas today, for<BR>
> example, law enforcement may be in the hands of a<BR>
> locally-based person or organization (sheriff,<BR>
> headman, constable), or of a representative of the<BR>
> central government (like a U.S. Marshall), or of the<BR>
> military, or of paramilitary organizations (and not<BR>
> just death squads).  To what extent can character<BR>
> generation give different flavors to these<BR>
> experiences?<BR>
<BR>
Just for the hell of it, here's a different take on it. <BR>
<BR>
Originally, "sheriff" was "shire reeve". That is, he was the "reeve"<BR>
(an office appointed by the Crown) of a "shire" (fair sized geographic<BR>
area, not under the direct control of a noble). <BR>
<BR>
So, is this "sheriff" a US style elected enforcement "officer" or a<BR>
Olde England style appointed by higher nobility enforcement officer? <BR>
<BR>
Note that in both cases they are responsible for "law enforcement" over<BR>
a large area (county/shire). But the US style is responsible to the<BR>
*people* (or at least to the local government of the area). But the<BR>
*appointed* variety is responsible to a high noble first, with the<BR>
locals only being a consideration to the extent that the law and the<BR>
noble say they are. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 03:00:16 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I was fiddling around, trying to get decent acceleration for a GTL9 ship,<BR>
> whne I realized that the GURPS Space light sails might work. Plugging the<BR>
> numbers in (and assuming no silly mistakes on my part), I came up with a<BR>
> relatively fast shuttle for short-haul trips.<BR>
<BR>
> Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> 10 USL, DR 100, Cockpit, 1 Light Sail, 4 Passenger Couches, 4.5 Cargo<BR>
><BR>
> Statistics: EMass 43.4 tonnes, LMass 63.8 tonnes, Cost: 28.5 MCr, HP:<BR>
> 2,631, Size Mod: +6<BR>
><BR>
> Performance: Accel: 2.3 G (3.3 G empty, 1.0 G overloaded)<BR>
<BR>
There's something *seriously* wrong here. Light sails, without laser<BR>
boosts or the like *can't* do even *1* g. 1/10th or even 1/100th g is<BR>
more like light sail performance. They are *not* high accel!<BR>
<BR>
> 1 light sail (145.1 tonnes thrust)      0.5     22.7    25.0    -       -<BR>
<BR>
And just how *big* is this sail? And what does *it* mass? I bet you<BR>
forgot to add the mass of the sail to the mass of the ship before<BR>
calculating acceleration.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 02:15:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Latin pronounciation (was Re: Rule of man coin)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Latin was a living language for a long time, so it's not surprising that<BR>
> there are different ways to pronounce it.  My imperfect understanding is<BR>
> as follows:  Classical Latin was spoken a very long time ago, like<BR>
> before 0 CE.  Vulgar Latin and Church Latin are the more recent use, and<BR>
> are pronounced somewhat like Italian.  Legal Latin differs from country<BR>
> to country, and only vaguely resembles Classical or Vulgar Latin (that<BR>
> is certainly the case in English).  Italian is known to some people as<BR>
> Latin for regular people to use.<BR>
><BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:11:17 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
<BR>
On 29 Nov 99, at 19:58, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> What kills me is I USED to have the complete series..:(  I think I still<BR>
> have 1 or 2. ___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
I can see how that would bother you. I was actually quite lucky - I had <BR>
a couple, and then a whole lot turned up in a second hand store. I <BR>
think someone may have ditched their collection. Now if only someone <BR>
else with all the other ones (along with assorted other book, of <BR>
course) would too...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:30:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
>>> May I recommend "The Unauthorized Version" by Robin Lane Fox?  A look at<BR>
>>> the bible as history, by a good historian.<BR>
<BR>
>Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.<BR>
>- -Crusty<BR>
C.S. Lewis is one of the foremost Christian apologist of this century. His<BR>
stories are seeped in Christian allegory and morality. For example in the<BR>
Chronicles of Narnia the lion Aslan is a direct representative of Jesus<BR>
Christ. (And yeas that's probably where the name Aslan came from for the<BR>
Traveller race.)<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 03:07:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Sci fi films<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Kyle adds:<BR>
> But one Connery can be proud of is "Outland", set on a<BR>
> mining colony on Io where he's Sheriff.<BR>
<BR>
No. He's a US Marshall. Big difference. Both are law enforcement, but<BR>
Sherriffs (US type) are elected and paid for *locally*. The type of US<BR>
Marshall Connery plays is supplied by a central government for a town<BR>
(or mining camp, back in the old west *and* in Outland) that doesn't<BR>
have its own police or sherriff. <BR>
<BR>
> I liked it for<BR>
> the dull, industrial feel of it, which I think more<BR>
> accurately represents what space travel is likely to<BR>
> look like and be like for the people doing it: more<BR>
> that than the toothpaste-tube cleanliness of Star Trek<BR>
> or Star Wars.<BR>
<BR>
Starwars was famous for the *grunge* on all the privately owned ships,<BR>
and places like Mos Eiseley. <BR>
<BR>
Star Fleet ships look good because these people are professionals, and<BR>
they *want* to be there. And in the Academy, they problably got<BR>
demerits for untidy rooms. :-)<BR>
<BR>
With civilian ships, you'll see a lot less "spic and span", but most of<BR>
the time you'll see *neat*. Even when things are greasy and grimy. Why?<BR>
Because improperly stowed gear onbard a ship can *kill* you. And even<BR>
if it's "merely" lightweight personal possessions in your cabin, you'll<BR>
stow them or fasten them down securely so *they* don't get damaged.<BR>
<BR>
*Any* experienced seaman is going to take one look at a sloppy ship and<BR>
decide that he's got better (and less painful or quicker) ways of<BR>
committing suicide than shipping with people who leave gear unstowed,<BR>
or who don't keep the things that *need* to be clean clean.<BR>
<BR>
The same should go for spacemen. Even moreso. On a habitable planet, if<BR>
things stink, it's a nuisance. In space, if things stink it's either<BR>
fault life support, or somebody not cleaning up stuff that might<BR>
compromise life support later. After all the "scrubbers" are supposed<BR>
to be removing trace chemicals, many of which are toxic *long* before<BR>
you can smell them. So if you can smell "stinks", even if they are<BR>
harmless, it means the filters aren't working. And what may be in the<BR>
air that you *can't* smell?<BR>
<BR>
When you get to things like living quaters in a sealed environment<BR>
(like the "camp" in Ooutland) you'll find folks a lot more casual. But<BR>
either there will be frequent accidents or loss of life from<BR>
carelessness, or there will be *enforced* standards for "neat" in areas<BR>
where it matters (basicly anyplace where "clutter" or "dirt/filth"<BR>
could cause an accident kills/injures folks *other* than the person<BR>
responsibly for the "junk" or "dirt"). <BR>
<BR>
Also, the "old-timers" will be *really* leery of anybody who hasn't<BR>
learned what rules are *important*. I'm reminded of Belters in Niven's<BR>
universe (and a few others). Newbies (immigrants, or kids just getting<BR>
old enough to go out on their own) are *required* to complete a "term"<BR>
running a one-man prospecting ship before they can work at *anything*<BR>
except clerical stuff or very, *very* "non-critical" jobs.<BR>
<BR>
Why? Because until they've proved that they can follow rules and be<BR>
*careful* enough to keep *themselves* alive, they aren't going to be<BR>
allowed into a situation where they can take somebody else with them<BR>
when they make a mistake. <BR>
<BR>
In spite of training, *most* kids/immigrants *don't* live thru this<BR>
term. The kids haven't learned they aren't immortal yet. The adults<BR>
from habitable planets haven't learned that in space *any* mistake is<BR>
going to be fatal. They aren't "paranoid" enough about safety checks<BR>
and the like. <BR>
<BR>
Spacers from belts or other "artificial environment" worlds are going<BR>
to be *real* sticklers for details that matter. And tend to be *real*<BR>
suspicious of folks from places where you can walk around on the<BR>
surface without artificial aids. At least until they've "proven"<BR>
themselves. <BR>
<BR>
Y'know, that ought to be a "world classification" like Non-industrial"<BR>
or "Agricultural". Say, "habitable", "marginal", "artifical". With the<BR>
"habitable" types and the "artifical" types *really* not understanding<BR>
each other. The marginals won't take things for granted, the way the<BR>
habitables do, but they aren't as paranoid as the artificals. (after<BR>
all, on a marginal world, forgetting (say) your filter mask may<BR>
"merely" put you in the hospital. <BR>
<BR>
> Reminds me of that great scene in "Armageddon" where<BR>
> the Russian cosmonaut claims he can fix the American<BR>
> equipment, they say, "No, it's American components,<BR>
> you won't know how to use them." He barges in and<BR>
> starts hitting the equipment: "American components<BR>
> (bash!) Russian components (bash!) all (bash!) made in<BR>
> (bash) Taiwan! (bash! machine starts up again)" Sounds<BR>
> right to me.<BR>
<BR>
A semi-rational attitude. If you *need* the equipment, it's not<BR>
working, and you don't have "proper" tools or instructions "bashing" it<BR>
(not hard enough to break it, but hard enough to jostle loose<BR>
connections and stuck valves) *is* a reasonable response. If you *do*<BR>
have tools, manuals and parts, you go by the book (unless you've<BR>
learned the book is wrong,, or that 90% of the time the problem is a<BR>
bit of corrosion on a connector. Then a "bash" may be the "right" fix<BR>
again. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:58:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
<BR>
Well if I ever get back to Vancouver, WA..:)  I know which store I sold them<BR>
to.  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 6:11 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On 29 Nov 99, at 19:58, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > What kills me is I USED to have the complete series..:(  I think I still<BR>
> > have 1 or 2. ___________________________________________________________<BR>
><BR>
> I can see how that would bother you. I was actually quite lucky - I had<BR>
> a couple, and then a whole lot turned up in a second hand store. I<BR>
> think someone may have ditched their collection. Now if only someone<BR>
> else with all the other ones (along with assorted other book, of<BR>
> course) would too...<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
> Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
><BR>
> A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 08:53:28 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: YNYBPTMTW (was re: LEO's)<BR>
<BR>
You know you've been playing too much Traveller when:<BR>
<BR>
You see the message header "LEO", and the first thing you think is,<BR>
"Well, it doesn't have to be EARTH orbit..."<BR>
<BR>
<Discussion of Law Enforcement Officers snipped><BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:04:15 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote, on whether PC's can solve a social problem<BR>
themselves that a planetfull of people haven't solved in centuries:<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
Then why do companies love to hire consultants (I was one until about<BR>
three weeks ago.)?<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
I doubt the companies that hire you have been working for centuries on<BR>
their latest business problem.<BR>
<BR>
A consultant brings a valuable, or even unique set of skills and knowledge<BR>
to a company. In the same vein, it may be concievable that a band of<BR>
interstellar PC's could bring new information or a previously unheard-of<BR>
point of view to a divided culture, allowing the different groups in the<BR>
culture to find new understanding and live in harmony. However, if this<BR>
fracticious planet has been in interstellar contact for a while, the PC's<BR>
are really going to have to work to come up with answers the people<BR>
haven't been exposed to yet, or answers they haven't thought of<BR>
already themselves.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, you might have a PC on board with CT Liaison-8 skill...<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:28:51 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
Not entirely true. In point of fact, for about the last two centuries<BR>
theologians have been all over the map concerning whether or not the Bible<BR>
is accurate or truthful. The assumption that you're making is inaccurate. To<BR>
say that over the course of 200 years everyone who's had an interest in<BR>
studying the Bible was brainwashed before they got there is something of a<BR>
slander.<BR>
>>>>>>>>><BR>
Bonus points to Chris for pushing the loaded term level from "biased" to<BR>
"brainwashed", with extra points for adding the "slander" label to <BR>
a fellow TMLer's opinion. <weg><BR>
<BR>
Without a personal belief that the Bible is a highly significant <BR>
document, you will not study it rigorously enough to produce any<BR>
insights sufficiently developed to be accepted by respected Bible<BR>
scholars as significant. The majority of people performing these studies<BR>
are of a religious bent, even if they are currently in a doubting or<BR>
skeptical phase.<BR>
<BR>
How about this: the majority of those studying the Bible have a <BR>
spiritual bent, as those without one generally dismiss it out of hand.<BR>
With a spiritual bent - either for or against Chrisitianity - the Bible<BR>
has value, either as a basis for a belief system, or as a weapon<BR>
against belief systems (including Christianity). If spiritual matters<BR>
are unimportant, then the Bible is a historical and literary artifact,<BR>
more valuable as a source of indirect historical/social information <BR>
(as the Greek myths provide context to Mediterrenean cultures) <BR>
rather than for it's limited direct historical references.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:33:50 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
>> May I recommend "The Unauthorized Version" by Robin Lane Fox?  A look at<BR>
>> the bible as history, by a good historian.<BR>
><BR>
>Or "Surspised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.<BR>
<BR>
Or for a more academic treatment, "Asimov's Guide to the Bible" by Isaac<BR>
Asimov, another SF writer and famous athiest. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:48:01 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
"William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> (California also has a separate highway<BR>
> patrol, if I understand california correctly).<BR>
<BR>
Hell yes! And you can watch them every morning<BR>
at 7 and 8 AM on TNT! (This is why I am always<BR>
late in the mornings when I'm on a business<BR>
trip in the US... every hotel has TNT)<BR>
<BR>
Ponch and John are the best.<BR>
http://www.tnt-tv.com/action/chips/media/2.mov<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: The players, having landed dirt-side and taking<BR>
some R&R are pulled over for speeding by a "a carefree <BR>
cop with a devestating, lady-killing smile and an <BR>
easy-going (but not TOO easy-going) attitude" and his<BR>
partner...<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                        egh@klg.com<BR>
Java Evangelist, KL Group                   http://www.klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1414<BR>
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